As someone low in self-control and high in hedonic capacity, that study makes me feel a lot better. Those people doing “virtuous” activities are doing exactly the same thing I’m doing - choosing to do the thing they enjoy most!
Your tumblr posting on the same subject was worth keeping, "Wanting things and feeling pleasure don’t come easily to all of us. And sometimes they never do. Try focusing instead on what you find interesting. Be curious. Do something for the bit. Do it for the story. Notice which populations of people you find admirable in some way. What do you find esteemable about them? How can you learn more? How can you get nearer to them? What sounds viscerally unappealing to you? Why? Get curious about those feelings. What do the people you care about find interesting or inspiring of passion? Can you ask them about those things? I am anhedonic and cold and detached most days, and I doubt that I will ever be happy, but I am a curious person who lives to try new things and understand more about the human condition, and to make something of that understanding, and that saves me. You can find more about yourself through what fascinates, perplexes, frustrates, compels, or motivates you. Anything that provokes a real reaction in you is worth paying some attention to, I think."
This same zen-like approach can help with pain and distress, if one can slow down and notice small changes, floating thoughts, emotions, memories, sensations etc. That picture of what is going on is an ever-present starting point. Seeking relief from unhappiness is a challenge. "Lusting after results" is counterproductive. Getting curious is good advice.
This post spoke to my soul from beginning to end. I didn’t realize that I put pressure on myself to be happy and that I feel shame for rarely being happy. It’s very freeing to focus on following my curiosities and let the experience of feeding my brain stand in for happiness. My existence is the universe coming to know itself a little better.
That's a hell of an answer, the low hedonic capacity, high self-control feels spot on. I've been doing woodworking, lifting, bit of metal stuff for quite some time, and getting enjoyment and pride out of it but never realized that this is a valid approach. Somehow got it in my head that only things involving others 'count' and those thing I do enjoy I only did because they're functional. Much to consider. Thanks!
The study about self control and hedonic capacity seems like maybe ADHD makes this impossible. For example, I’m thinking of not getting pleasure or satisfaction from completing a task.
On another note, I’m pasting this into my journal for therapy talks this week. “ I get tired and cranky from being so socially connected all of the time. I can listen well to other people for hours, and leave them feeling really good, but it makes me feel more alone. What I really want to do is hole up in my room with lots of books and video games, crawling out of my den to only briefly interact as a nonverbal observer. It’s deep thinking and intense sensations that helps me to check out from my worries and relax. Realizing that my most satisfied self is actually quite withdrawn, analytical, and not “fun” is one of the big challenges I face in my unmasking. It’s still hard to explain to other people, because I worry they will see me as cold, uncaring, unemotional, and not worth sticking around for.”
This is really what’s at the center of my deep loneliness. I feel as if I’ll never be truly known because I mostly want to participate by being a non verbal (mostly) observer. That’s my most unmasked self but it’s very difficult to make new friends and maintain friendships in the mainstream world this way.
I’ve had a couple friends who were largely observers. Interestingly, they were actually very popular. More popular than me.
There are some people who won’t understand you. An ex of mine once told me that he didn’t understand why one of my observer friends was so popular, because he was “boring”. But not everybody is like that and needs to be entertained constantly. I find observers to be great companions.
I also love interacting with people in analytical, somewhat irritated ways. Socializing doesn’t always have to be “fun” - it’s great to work on a project or solve a problem together. Or even argue. I like running errands with my friends.
This article really got me thinking. I read it over a number of days. Just this year so far I have changed my life dramatically for the better. And sometime last year or maybe the year before I realised I had met all my parenting goals, raised my child the way i wanted and now I can just kick back and enjoy him as a family member (albeit still with a high level of care needs).
Somehow reading this article made me realise I don’t have to keep striving. I am 36 and I have achieved all my main life goals. The rest is just playing.
Obviously I haven’t fixed climate change or freed Palestine, but those should not be individual goals anyway. Part of ‘doing what i want in the time i have available for however much time i have left to live’ includes contributing to those causes, because that is what i want to do with myself.
And who knows, maybe in 12 months time, disaster will strike in my life and i will have to kick into emergency mode. But while things are just ticking over, i don’t have to be in emergency mode for no reason.
I’m automatically suspicious of people who appear happy. What are they selling? Whatever it is, I don’t want it because it’s fake or pricey or both. The required happy face is very American. We are expected to smile and say “good morning, how are you?” Then we’re expected to say “good.” That’s not true in every culture, eg Japan. What a burden lifted living in Japan! We’re constantly acting. Tedious at the least!
I consider myself a person high in hedonic capacity - I prioritize pleasure, I seek it out, and based on my facial expressions and reactions and the way people react to my reactions, I experience pleasure more intensely than most people do.
However, according to that scale, I would be a person low in hedonic capacity. I totally disagree. I don’t think I’m a person with high agency when it comes to pursuing my desires. It’s not easy for me to switch off and relax. I have a lot of intrusive and OCD like thoughts about work and responsibilities and about how much I’m enjoying things.
However, that doesn’t mean I’m not experiencing pleasure. That just means I’m often distracted and partially dissatisfied while experiencing pleasure. It’s still the driving force of my life anyway.
I'd highly recommend the audiobook The Power of Vulnerability by Brene Brown for anyone looking to tackling shame. It's highly entertaining and very helpful. Also helps with unmasking.
This is fine & all but then when I want no part of it & find end points of my obligations & kill myself it should be fine. Because I have zero interest in being alive. I agree that we are just animals, but none of it is helpful. There is nothing I want anymore. The sheer thought of me as a human that is supposed to want things & have goals hurts because there is nothing there. I also understand that the self isn’t real which is fine because I have no self anyways. But, like we’re not even supposed to be happy & somehow that’s still supposed to be enough? Totally not enough for me. It’s my life & exiting is the only thing I’ve ever wanted.
As someone low in self-control and high in hedonic capacity, that study makes me feel a lot better. Those people doing “virtuous” activities are doing exactly the same thing I’m doing - choosing to do the thing they enjoy most!
yeah!!!!
Your tumblr posting on the same subject was worth keeping, "Wanting things and feeling pleasure don’t come easily to all of us. And sometimes they never do. Try focusing instead on what you find interesting. Be curious. Do something for the bit. Do it for the story. Notice which populations of people you find admirable in some way. What do you find esteemable about them? How can you learn more? How can you get nearer to them? What sounds viscerally unappealing to you? Why? Get curious about those feelings. What do the people you care about find interesting or inspiring of passion? Can you ask them about those things? I am anhedonic and cold and detached most days, and I doubt that I will ever be happy, but I am a curious person who lives to try new things and understand more about the human condition, and to make something of that understanding, and that saves me. You can find more about yourself through what fascinates, perplexes, frustrates, compels, or motivates you. Anything that provokes a real reaction in you is worth paying some attention to, I think."
This same zen-like approach can help with pain and distress, if one can slow down and notice small changes, floating thoughts, emotions, memories, sensations etc. That picture of what is going on is an ever-present starting point. Seeking relief from unhappiness is a challenge. "Lusting after results" is counterproductive. Getting curious is good advice.
This post spoke to my soul from beginning to end. I didn’t realize that I put pressure on myself to be happy and that I feel shame for rarely being happy. It’s very freeing to focus on following my curiosities and let the experience of feeding my brain stand in for happiness. My existence is the universe coming to know itself a little better.
That's a hell of an answer, the low hedonic capacity, high self-control feels spot on. I've been doing woodworking, lifting, bit of metal stuff for quite some time, and getting enjoyment and pride out of it but never realized that this is a valid approach. Somehow got it in my head that only things involving others 'count' and those thing I do enjoy I only did because they're functional. Much to consider. Thanks!
This answer really made me think. Thank you.
The study about self control and hedonic capacity seems like maybe ADHD makes this impossible. For example, I’m thinking of not getting pleasure or satisfaction from completing a task.
On another note, I’m pasting this into my journal for therapy talks this week. “ I get tired and cranky from being so socially connected all of the time. I can listen well to other people for hours, and leave them feeling really good, but it makes me feel more alone. What I really want to do is hole up in my room with lots of books and video games, crawling out of my den to only briefly interact as a nonverbal observer. It’s deep thinking and intense sensations that helps me to check out from my worries and relax. Realizing that my most satisfied self is actually quite withdrawn, analytical, and not “fun” is one of the big challenges I face in my unmasking. It’s still hard to explain to other people, because I worry they will see me as cold, uncaring, unemotional, and not worth sticking around for.”
This is really what’s at the center of my deep loneliness. I feel as if I’ll never be truly known because I mostly want to participate by being a non verbal (mostly) observer. That’s my most unmasked self but it’s very difficult to make new friends and maintain friendships in the mainstream world this way.
I’ve had a couple friends who were largely observers. Interestingly, they were actually very popular. More popular than me.
There are some people who won’t understand you. An ex of mine once told me that he didn’t understand why one of my observer friends was so popular, because he was “boring”. But not everybody is like that and needs to be entertained constantly. I find observers to be great companions.
I also love interacting with people in analytical, somewhat irritated ways. Socializing doesn’t always have to be “fun” - it’s great to work on a project or solve a problem together. Or even argue. I like running errands with my friends.
Oftentimes shame comes from past trauma. eMDR therapy worked for me.
This article really got me thinking. I read it over a number of days. Just this year so far I have changed my life dramatically for the better. And sometime last year or maybe the year before I realised I had met all my parenting goals, raised my child the way i wanted and now I can just kick back and enjoy him as a family member (albeit still with a high level of care needs).
Somehow reading this article made me realise I don’t have to keep striving. I am 36 and I have achieved all my main life goals. The rest is just playing.
Obviously I haven’t fixed climate change or freed Palestine, but those should not be individual goals anyway. Part of ‘doing what i want in the time i have available for however much time i have left to live’ includes contributing to those causes, because that is what i want to do with myself.
And who knows, maybe in 12 months time, disaster will strike in my life and i will have to kick into emergency mode. But while things are just ticking over, i don’t have to be in emergency mode for no reason.
I’m automatically suspicious of people who appear happy. What are they selling? Whatever it is, I don’t want it because it’s fake or pricey or both. The required happy face is very American. We are expected to smile and say “good morning, how are you?” Then we’re expected to say “good.” That’s not true in every culture, eg Japan. What a burden lifted living in Japan! We’re constantly acting. Tedious at the least!
Thank youuuuuuuu
I consider myself a person high in hedonic capacity - I prioritize pleasure, I seek it out, and based on my facial expressions and reactions and the way people react to my reactions, I experience pleasure more intensely than most people do.
However, according to that scale, I would be a person low in hedonic capacity. I totally disagree. I don’t think I’m a person with high agency when it comes to pursuing my desires. It’s not easy for me to switch off and relax. I have a lot of intrusive and OCD like thoughts about work and responsibilities and about how much I’m enjoying things.
However, that doesn’t mean I’m not experiencing pleasure. That just means I’m often distracted and partially dissatisfied while experiencing pleasure. It’s still the driving force of my life anyway.
I'd highly recommend the audiobook The Power of Vulnerability by Brene Brown for anyone looking to tackling shame. It's highly entertaining and very helpful. Also helps with unmasking.
This is fine & all but then when I want no part of it & find end points of my obligations & kill myself it should be fine. Because I have zero interest in being alive. I agree that we are just animals, but none of it is helpful. There is nothing I want anymore. The sheer thought of me as a human that is supposed to want things & have goals hurts because there is nothing there. I also understand that the self isn’t real which is fine because I have no self anyways. But, like we’re not even supposed to be happy & somehow that’s still supposed to be enough? Totally not enough for me. It’s my life & exiting is the only thing I’ve ever wanted.
I needed to hear so much of this, in this moment. Thank you.