Facilitated Communication is bunk, with many facilitators having used it to put words in the mouths of children. This massively popular podcast is just the latest instance of abuse involving FC.
Having worked with non verbal people for a long time, and witnessing interactions between support staff and these people a lot of this can come down to the support person wanting to feel special by claiming to have some unique bond with the individual.
It’s true that you can develop a strong working relationship with someone over time that means you understand their subtle communication cues, but nothing should ever been assumed as true and correct unless the person has emphatically confirmed it.
AAC can be great, but still relies on the support person being open to actually receiving what has been said and accepting it if it goes against their own beliefs/preferences. This is especially true if it’s about anything sexuality, or basically anything that challenges how we think disabled people should act. Devon I’ve told you some stories around this…
I haven’t listened to the podcast. But it doesn’t surprise me that people claim to have telepathic bonds with disabled people. That implies a certain level of importance and is a control issue.
There’s a term in disability services here “client capture”. Outdated terminology but basically implies that a staff member has formed a non working relationship with the disabled person which prevents them from experiencing freedom and autonomy. That’s what all of this reeks of…
People are not nonverbal, they may be non speaking or minimally speaking. To say nonverbal implies they don’t ever communicate or express themselves. All communication forms are valid. The words we use matter.
I know a number of people who identify specifically as nonverbal, and in fact find it offensive when Autistics who *can* speak describe themselves as "going nonverbal." If you check out the nonverbal tag on Tumblr you can find many of them. Do not attempt to speak for all people within such an already massively disinfranchised group. There is incredible diversity of perspectives.
I tend to leave it to the individual to decide what words they prefer. I’ve never personally known anyone to take offence to that word here, but could also be a cultural difference. I think if you read my comment you’d see that the implication you state doesn’t stand here, as it’s entirely about people communicating for themselves. All humans communicate yes.
There are surveys of non speaking people about the terms they prefer and it’s overwhelming non speaking. Devon saying “don’t attempt to speak for everyone” is like how a non autistic person would respond to someone who says “with autism”. Things have evolved.
I also think people are mixing up “telepathy” with understanding each other. Just like any human beings you can bond with someone and get to the point where you know what a look means, share inside jokes with a glance, know what the other person is likely thinking in response to something etc etc etc
This is about Rapport. Not mind reading. We are all capable of this. Including disabled people. Some of the sharpest people I’ve met can’t speak but one look tells me they’ve absolutely understood the situation, and can tell what I think about it. It’s often an insightful social commentary they’ve picked up on. But we’re not using telepathy to communicate, just regular human interactions and relationships.
From the comments and some of the points you are overlooking in the podcast, it doesn't sound like you've actually listened to it. There were a few FC people, but there were far, far more people using devices and communicating completely on their own accord. The similarities in subject and context is striking. They also do not say ALL of us autistics; it's the autistics who communicate without spoken word. I am able to read thoughts of particular people and easily read emotions - I don't call that "magic" as you are saying in these comments. It's just what it is.
It seems like you think this is bogus and faulty journalism, but despite how much I love your writing, I don't think your own piece is totally credible if you haven't listened to the podcast, because you are simply assuming
Ky Dickens deliberately narrates as if spellers featured are independently communicating but if you pay the $9.99 to watch the paywalled clips you'll see nothing but FC style communication, with Akhil being somewhat independent but still, importantly, outright prompted to give the correct answers by his mother! So there goes the telepathy in his case, regardless of the FC question.
At one point Ky says, to assuage fears of FC, that she NEVER saw any facilitator moving spelling boards while filming, but the clips show exactly that, with boards waving all over the place! Why does a facilitator need to hold the board at all in the first place? Why is Ky so dishonest about FC in general, giving a censored "history" of FC in episode 8 that leaves out the entire reason it was discredited in the 90s through double blind testing. Indeed, the podcast's website features a disclaimer calling it "ableist" and "materialist" to ask for double blind testing of FC! It's a perfect closed phenomenon: using FC "proves" telepathy, and telepathy "proves" that FC works.
Thank you so much for this comment, the extent to which people are bending over backward to defend something so fundamentally ableist in its premise and methods is making me feel crazyyyy
You're not actually reading their thoughts, you're just guessing what they're thinking. You could be wrong. Believing that you have a special ability and therefore your intuition about what someone else is thinking must be right is a great way to get into toxic dynamics and unresolvable conflicts.
I never understand it when someone tells me what I am doing, rather than asking me what it's like. I also don't understand why you are telling me what the results of my lived experience are; rather than asking me.
Their point is apt. You do not know another person's emotions -- no one can. All empathy is a simulation of what we think the other person must be feeling, and it always has the potential of being wrong -- but especially when we are attempting to interpret the emotions of someone dramatically different from us.
As a spiritual person, I believe from personal experience that certain kinds of communication can transcend what it's typically understood to mean and be. But using people's bodies as Ouija boards is about as far from that as it's possible to get.
And claiming all nonverbal autistic people are magically gifted, in the sentimental way this podcast does, ignores that any of us who experience communication differently are still seen as deficient or deluded, when we don't benefit people who value social norms over humanity.
I'm also thankful for how this piece goes into the spectrum of difficulties autistic folks can have with communication on the physiological level. I hadn't considered before that I might sometimes physically struggle to make my mouth make words, because of the same fine motor difficulties that affect my hands. But now I understand that I do, and why, and how that overlaps with my cognitive difficulties with speech. Thanks for helping me come away from this read wiser about my own and others' autistic and disabled experiences.
I’m a extremely highly masked level one late Dx and I worked as a behavioral specialist for level 2/3 autistic kids in the late 90s and early 00s and one of the reasons I got out was that FC was obviously BS for the parents.
I’m curious how this relates to some of the unsupported communications seen in the Tapes? I’ve just been witnessing loads of skepticism and outright anger from the autistic community about this podcast and I’d just love to further the conversation if possible
I am autistic and work with autistic adults so I have lots of experience with the spectrum and don’t feel telepathy is too far away from my experiences with my students.
I agree that FC has a rough history, but what about how these individuals are communicating? It’s pretty pushed on us the idea that they are communicating independently of anyone else
I don’t mean to be contrarian, just want to open the door to conversation
Can you talk about the experiences with your students that have seemed like telepathy to you? What might some alternate explanations for those experiences be that don't require belief in magic?
I didn’t mean to imply that I’ve actually experienced telepathy with my students, only that I know we share lots of non verbal communication and I wouldn’t be surprised if they had abilities beyond what we understand now (just knowing how limited autism research is and the disrespect that’s put on non speakers and spellers)
My question was more about the methods in the pod that are not FC, though I’ve been doing some reading and looking at some of the videos from the “tests” and it’s quite clear that there can be subtle prompts from the parents, even when it’s said to be “totally bullet proof”
Just curious to hold conversation around this very popular topic
Thanks for clarifying, and apologies for mischaracterizing what you were going for. I think if the conversation is about the abilities and communications of nonverbal people and intellectually disabled people being massively overlooked, there's a lot that's valuable to be said, and a lot we can learn from following what people in those groups have to say/write/express for themselves. I have certainly experienced deep connections to nonverbal & intellectually disabled Autistics that have felt as though we were on the same wavelength, that we *got* one another on some level that transcends language. I think a lot of communication and affiliation transcends language really, or occurs on some other level -- but still a level that is real, and observable and measurable and not supernatural.
I don't think a podcast created by abled & speaking people that uses discredited methodology and makes supernatural claims is a helpful place for exploring those topics. I think it ought to be something led by nonverbal people themselves for their own purposes.
Ya absolutely this. Thanks for your thoughtful reply!! I just gotta say that your books have seriously changed the trajectory of my life and Laziness Does Not Exist is my new daily motto💖
Can we consider any of the reporting on a podcast that uses such a widely discredited method as a primary source to be credible? Do you find the methodology and analysis of a podcast whose core premise is that disabled people have magic powers credible?
Have you listened to the podcast or watched any of the research footage? They address skepticism and historical issues directly in episode 8, and there is no physical touch between anyone communicating nonverbally.
It really feels like you’re coming from a place of assumption re: how this topic is covered and explained throughout the podcast. They genuinely never use the phrases “magic,” “magic powers” or anything remotely similar.
They say Autistic people appear to have psychic abilities and are using 'telepathy'. I am using the term "magic" here to highlight they are making completely unscientific, supernatural claims akin to claims of magic.
Oh wait I misread your comment. Checking for understanding: So since they use FC in the podcast (and defend it on their website etc), it makes sense that any report of independent communication using AAC is a lie? Am I getting that correctly?
I personally would not trust the journalistic integrity or rigor of a reporter who relies upon such a massively discredited method in their reporting. This isn't about the messages of the AAC users, it's about how they are reported on, how they are interviewed, what they are asked by the reporters, how the information is presented in the show, etc.
I honestly get the sense you haven't listened to the entire series. This wasn't about FC. This is about giving voice to those who otherwise assumed to have nothing to say. It's about parents learning their child has been "hearing" their thoughts all along, including the disparaging, difficult ones. It's about learning they have been learning and absorbing much more around them than we ever realized. It's about rigid experiments set up in a scientific way to prevent people from judging it as pseudoscience. It's about learning that some non-speaking autistic folks connect mentally via telepathy with other non-speaking autistic folks and find a sense of connection and community they otherwise wouldn't have access to.
It's about their caregivers and other specialists learning their clients knew things THEY were thinking about without having ever shared those things. It's about a whole lot of parents and care providers of autistic non-speaking kids staying silent out of fear of ridicule. If this possibility of telepathy exists and we have overlooked it, wouldn't it behoove us to research it more? For me, the tapes were fascinating, mind-blowing, and shined a light on something that could give non-speaking autistic kids a way to communicate sooner and be more understood by their families, schools, and carers. I don't care so much HOW telepathy works, but THAT it seems to/might. It made me curious.
Do you notice how every major revelation and insight being described here has to do with the interior lives and struggles of the *parents and caregivers*? And not the disabled people themselves...?
Not sure how you concluded that. Point by point I noted: 1) giving voice to these autistic folx, 2) if parents knew their kid could hear/know their thoughts, my guess is they'd work to have much kinder thoughts about their autistic kid, thereby benefiting that kid, 3) if their child is picking up on information in other ways (telepathically or by reading) that means we can adapt learning to be more appropriate to the level of their understanding and not presume incompetence or a lower level of comprehension - at least not without full assessment, 4) experiments were overseen by Dr. Diane Hennessey Powell, a neuropsychiatrist who trained at Johns-Hopkins (she must be pretty smart and willing to risk a lot when it comes to professional reputation for the sake of sharing this information), with the goal of helping autistic non-speakers, 5) if caregivers and teachers thought that even SOME of their autistic clients/students could read their thoughts, and thoughtfully considered how they think about them and their abilities to do many things, this benefits the autistic person, 6) if the stigma and fears of the unknown could be dispelled (kind of like Unmasking process for those of us who do speak), that again benefits the autistic person, 7) if we could develop an assessment to determine the full range of capacities for each non-speaking autistic child very early on, then that child benefits from education that could be tailored to their needs and abilities.
These are ALL non-speaking autistic benefits. And...dare I say, coming to not view so many as inherently "disabled", but rather disabled by our inability to properly assess their intellectual, cognitive & spiritual, functioning by virtue of our own limited viewpoints.
Please actually take a listen to the whole series and then consider a more thoughtful follow up essay.
Illuminating work as always. Will the oversaturation of the podcast scene drive us to unearth every psychological pseudoscience for fame and profit? At this point I wouldn't be surprised by the 'Pop Phrenology Podcast'.
TT is highly problematic, but these nonspeakers were *not* using FC. S2C & RPM *are not* the same as FC. Holding a letter board in front of a speller is not even remotely the same as physically supporting an individuals arm & hand. This is incredibly harmful & invalidating to nonspeakers.
Elitist, ableist institutions like the APA are very reactionary and slow to change-- which is part of what makes it so striking that even they are unequivocal in their rejection of this communication method. It's rare for staff within professional orgs to so loudly discredit their colleagues. That the evidence against FC is so consistent that they can use such strong-voiced language in opposition to FC is very telling. On the rare occasion when these orgs take a strong stance against dangerous psuedoscience, be that antivax sentiment or a claim that abled people controlling disabled peoples' bodies is in some way a communcation coming from them, I am in the relatively rare position of agreeing with them. I also was happy when the APA issued statements against advanced interrogation methods for instance.
TTT is straight-up misleading about the communication methods used, intentionally so, and that has awful consequences for people who do use things like letterboards to communicate -- if an abled facilitator is moving the board and influencing input, it's a problem, but letterboards themselves are not.
It's worth noting that at one point Ky defines S2C and RPM as different from classic FC because they do not involve facilitator touch on the speller, but elsewhere she admits facilitators are physically supporting spellers, and the clips on the Telepathy Tapes website show such physical support. Too there's the question of why facilitators also need to be holding letterboards at all, as we can see them moving and waving about during spelling.
Tell me you didn't make it past the first episode without telling me you didn't make it past the first episode. If you're going to give your opinion on something, at least do your due diligence and have actually watched the podcast all the way through. Everything you bring up was addressed in the show and further, it started with a FC who touched the arm but the other autistic folks used other forms of communication and some of them were able to verbalize words. So much of what they experienced my mother and I have experienced as autistics. There is something to it and it's not magic. It's consciousness and it's a reminder that we don't know everything and why its crucial to keep an open mind. Its humbling and nothing more. We're just human, after all.
Christa, I'm sorry, but you are being lied to. In the videos on their Pateron TTT demonstrates that facilitators are controlling use of the letterboards and keyboards -- any manipulation of its placement and access to it can unconsciously influence feedback, as all of the studies I have linked to demonstrate consistently. Furthermore, the nonspeaking people profiled in this podcast were never even taught to read or spell prior to the sudden implementation of FC. Nonspeaking people can use devices to communicate, and communicate using other methods all the time -- but if an abled person is controlling the communication it is abusive puppetry.
I listened to the whole podcast and some of them do speak enough to communicate their experiences. They say they're real. What I find the most troubling is your need to speak on their behalf. You are doing the very thing you're excusing others of doing. You're minimizing nonspeakers experiences and dismissing them because you don't believe what they're claiming as their experience is real. Im sorry but that's abliest, pure and simple. Who are you to say what they're experiencing isn't genuine? Did someone who is nonspeaking tell you that this is all a lie and they were forced to say those things? Otherwise, you're doing what so many tend to do, speak your bias as truth. You say I'm being lied to while you're lying to yourself.
You’re right that ASHA lumps S2C & RPM in with FC - & there have been many advocates fighting for ASHA to retract that damaging & incorrect statement, Barry Prizant among them. ASHA is wrong (I say this as a licensed SLP).
I appreciate the clarification and resources -- how do we distinguish between iterations of RPM where the board is being moved and manipulated by other people, and instances where it is not? Genuine question since that seems to be the root of the issue here, at least in my view -- if someone other than the person communicating has control over the communication method, I'm skeptical of the validity unless evidence indicates otherwise.
I’ve interviewed one of the people who did the ASHA review and the main reason it concluded what it did is that there hasn’t been a single study where RPM and S2C proponents agreed to take part in a double blind test. That test disproved FC. If proponents of these new variants see them as more legitimate, they should be open to testing. It’s not ASHA who refuses to test.
Thank you for this clarification, Zaid! The Conspirituality episode I linked above also gets into this, for anyone curious -- within the FC community, anyone who expresses skepticism or submits to testing is ostracized.
You could extend these same questions to *any* form of AAC. PODD, for instance, is a communication partner assisted form of AAC. The user does not turn the pages of the book, only the partner. If the user can direct select, they point to icons, otherwise the partner assists with scanning & watches the user for indications, such as a blink or head nod.
Yet no one is calling into question this form of AAC. For nonspeakers with significant dyspraxia (a motor disorder), communication partner support is necessary for communication. Needing help to do something shouldn’t invalidate it. This is the reality for HSN autistics. Everything they do is called into question… that’s the true ableism.
Some of those other forms of communication have been empirically tested and do show that, when properly utilized (with a variety of different aid people who are themselves blinded to information that the disabled person does have access to), the communication comes from the disabled person themselves. Needing support does not invalidate a disabled person's communication -- relying on a specific facilitator who *controls* communication and refuses to subject their methods to empirical testing (as most FC and RPM facilitators do) makes it impossible to tell whether an abled person is puppetting a disabled person and putting words into their mouth. We approach with skepticism so that disabled people aren't being abused and misrepresented and denied better chances at communication that actually reflect their feelings.
I hear you. And like with most things, research lags decades behind what clinicians are reporting in practice. I think it’s important to note the hundreds of nonspeakers who have transitioned from learning to use a letter board through S2C & RPM to independent typing. This wouldn’t be possible if these individuals were just being “puppeted,” correct? There is *some* valid & important research out there to support spelling methods. Happy to share if you respond to my DM via Instagram. We need more, of course, but that doesn’t mean we trash a valid & important communication method used by thousands of nonspeakers.
Well there's a link there. The same man who helped create Stephen Hawking's AAC device was the one who created the test that disproved FC (Howard Shane). Meaning that he absolutely cares about using the right methods and testing them.
The idea that having to be touched is due to apraxia doesn't really add up, it's just a justification created by advocates and not scientifically validated. Many of the kids using FC/RPM/S2C can watch youtube on their ipads unassisted but they need a communications partner to type? There is no form of communication where you need another person to do it.
I’m gonna say you’re dead wrong on that. My kid is a whiz using his iPad to watch his videos cuz it’s so easy and highly enjoyable, it’s also regulating for him, he uses it to stim. Spelling is much much more difficult and requires precision for accuracy. Holding a thought in your mind, fighting your sensory issues, while attempting communication takes massive amounts of energy. It’s exhausting.
This is a distinction made up by activists. Nobody needs assistance communicating. Mind body disconnect? Autism isn’t one. Stephen Hawking had a device to let him communicate but he didn’t need another person there influencing his answers.
This is a disappointing post. I’m friends with 3 people who are non speaking who use a variety of forms of communication including facilitated communication sometimes (and not, other times). Two of whom have written about their horrible feelings about Telepathy Tapes - including how people who are not non speakers shouldn’t be speaking about this. It’s really important stuff to read.
Danny With Words, Typer Tremblings, and even mel baggs has written about the telepathy conversations before the podcast existed. I won’t say more since I’ve listened to them, and shared their voices, and encourage everyone to do the same.
And yes they find it horrible, and in part because they predicted people doing exactly what you’re doing. But for far deeper and more dehumanizing reasons than you post - and as the people being dehumanized.
(I’m disappointed because I generally love your writing so am disappointed by the lack of thoughtfulness here as someone out of the community).
Having worked with non verbal people for a long time, and witnessing interactions between support staff and these people a lot of this can come down to the support person wanting to feel special by claiming to have some unique bond with the individual.
It’s true that you can develop a strong working relationship with someone over time that means you understand their subtle communication cues, but nothing should ever been assumed as true and correct unless the person has emphatically confirmed it.
AAC can be great, but still relies on the support person being open to actually receiving what has been said and accepting it if it goes against their own beliefs/preferences. This is especially true if it’s about anything sexuality, or basically anything that challenges how we think disabled people should act. Devon I’ve told you some stories around this…
I haven’t listened to the podcast. But it doesn’t surprise me that people claim to have telepathic bonds with disabled people. That implies a certain level of importance and is a control issue.
There’s a term in disability services here “client capture”. Outdated terminology but basically implies that a staff member has formed a non working relationship with the disabled person which prevents them from experiencing freedom and autonomy. That’s what all of this reeks of…
People are not nonverbal, they may be non speaking or minimally speaking. To say nonverbal implies they don’t ever communicate or express themselves. All communication forms are valid. The words we use matter.
I know a number of people who identify specifically as nonverbal, and in fact find it offensive when Autistics who *can* speak describe themselves as "going nonverbal." If you check out the nonverbal tag on Tumblr you can find many of them. Do not attempt to speak for all people within such an already massively disinfranchised group. There is incredible diversity of perspectives.
I tend to leave it to the individual to decide what words they prefer. I’ve never personally known anyone to take offence to that word here, but could also be a cultural difference. I think if you read my comment you’d see that the implication you state doesn’t stand here, as it’s entirely about people communicating for themselves. All humans communicate yes.
There are surveys of non speaking people about the terms they prefer and it’s overwhelming non speaking. Devon saying “don’t attempt to speak for everyone” is like how a non autistic person would respond to someone who says “with autism”. Things have evolved.
I also think people are mixing up “telepathy” with understanding each other. Just like any human beings you can bond with someone and get to the point where you know what a look means, share inside jokes with a glance, know what the other person is likely thinking in response to something etc etc etc
This is about Rapport. Not mind reading. We are all capable of this. Including disabled people. Some of the sharpest people I’ve met can’t speak but one look tells me they’ve absolutely understood the situation, and can tell what I think about it. It’s often an insightful social commentary they’ve picked up on. But we’re not using telepathy to communicate, just regular human interactions and relationships.
This
From the comments and some of the points you are overlooking in the podcast, it doesn't sound like you've actually listened to it. There were a few FC people, but there were far, far more people using devices and communicating completely on their own accord. The similarities in subject and context is striking. They also do not say ALL of us autistics; it's the autistics who communicate without spoken word. I am able to read thoughts of particular people and easily read emotions - I don't call that "magic" as you are saying in these comments. It's just what it is.
It seems like you think this is bogus and faulty journalism, but despite how much I love your writing, I don't think your own piece is totally credible if you haven't listened to the podcast, because you are simply assuming
Ky Dickens deliberately narrates as if spellers featured are independently communicating but if you pay the $9.99 to watch the paywalled clips you'll see nothing but FC style communication, with Akhil being somewhat independent but still, importantly, outright prompted to give the correct answers by his mother! So there goes the telepathy in his case, regardless of the FC question.
At one point Ky says, to assuage fears of FC, that she NEVER saw any facilitator moving spelling boards while filming, but the clips show exactly that, with boards waving all over the place! Why does a facilitator need to hold the board at all in the first place? Why is Ky so dishonest about FC in general, giving a censored "history" of FC in episode 8 that leaves out the entire reason it was discredited in the 90s through double blind testing. Indeed, the podcast's website features a disclaimer calling it "ableist" and "materialist" to ask for double blind testing of FC! It's a perfect closed phenomenon: using FC "proves" telepathy, and telepathy "proves" that FC works.
Thank you so much for this comment, the extent to which people are bending over backward to defend something so fundamentally ableist in its premise and methods is making me feel crazyyyy
Thanks for your piece! If you haven't seen it already, the website facilitatedcommunication.org collects tons of articles on FC, including many by former facilitator Janyce Boynton, one of the 90s facilitators who agreed to double blind testing and then accepted the results. She's currently reviewing the podcast:https://www.facilitatedcommunication.org/blog/open-skepticism-of-fc-or-willful-ignorance-thoughts-about-the-telepathy-tapes-episode-4
You're not actually reading their thoughts, you're just guessing what they're thinking. You could be wrong. Believing that you have a special ability and therefore your intuition about what someone else is thinking must be right is a great way to get into toxic dynamics and unresolvable conflicts.
I never understand it when someone tells me what I am doing, rather than asking me what it's like. I also don't understand why you are telling me what the results of my lived experience are; rather than asking me.
Their point is apt. You do not know another person's emotions -- no one can. All empathy is a simulation of what we think the other person must be feeling, and it always has the potential of being wrong -- but especially when we are attempting to interpret the emotions of someone dramatically different from us.
why do we have to be magic or not disabled "actually" why can't we just be disabled 😡
As a spiritual person, I believe from personal experience that certain kinds of communication can transcend what it's typically understood to mean and be. But using people's bodies as Ouija boards is about as far from that as it's possible to get.
And claiming all nonverbal autistic people are magically gifted, in the sentimental way this podcast does, ignores that any of us who experience communication differently are still seen as deficient or deluded, when we don't benefit people who value social norms over humanity.
I'm also thankful for how this piece goes into the spectrum of difficulties autistic folks can have with communication on the physiological level. I hadn't considered before that I might sometimes physically struggle to make my mouth make words, because of the same fine motor difficulties that affect my hands. But now I understand that I do, and why, and how that overlaps with my cognitive difficulties with speech. Thanks for helping me come away from this read wiser about my own and others' autistic and disabled experiences.
I’m a extremely highly masked level one late Dx and I worked as a behavioral specialist for level 2/3 autistic kids in the late 90s and early 00s and one of the reasons I got out was that FC was obviously BS for the parents.
I’m curious how this relates to some of the unsupported communications seen in the Tapes? I’ve just been witnessing loads of skepticism and outright anger from the autistic community about this podcast and I’d just love to further the conversation if possible
I am autistic and work with autistic adults so I have lots of experience with the spectrum and don’t feel telepathy is too far away from my experiences with my students.
I agree that FC has a rough history, but what about how these individuals are communicating? It’s pretty pushed on us the idea that they are communicating independently of anyone else
I don’t mean to be contrarian, just want to open the door to conversation
Can you talk about the experiences with your students that have seemed like telepathy to you? What might some alternate explanations for those experiences be that don't require belief in magic?
I didn’t mean to imply that I’ve actually experienced telepathy with my students, only that I know we share lots of non verbal communication and I wouldn’t be surprised if they had abilities beyond what we understand now (just knowing how limited autism research is and the disrespect that’s put on non speakers and spellers)
My question was more about the methods in the pod that are not FC, though I’ve been doing some reading and looking at some of the videos from the “tests” and it’s quite clear that there can be subtle prompts from the parents, even when it’s said to be “totally bullet proof”
Just curious to hold conversation around this very popular topic
Thanks for clarifying, and apologies for mischaracterizing what you were going for. I think if the conversation is about the abilities and communications of nonverbal people and intellectually disabled people being massively overlooked, there's a lot that's valuable to be said, and a lot we can learn from following what people in those groups have to say/write/express for themselves. I have certainly experienced deep connections to nonverbal & intellectually disabled Autistics that have felt as though we were on the same wavelength, that we *got* one another on some level that transcends language. I think a lot of communication and affiliation transcends language really, or occurs on some other level -- but still a level that is real, and observable and measurable and not supernatural.
I don't think a podcast created by abled & speaking people that uses discredited methodology and makes supernatural claims is a helpful place for exploring those topics. I think it ought to be something led by nonverbal people themselves for their own purposes.
Ya absolutely this. Thanks for your thoughtful reply!! I just gotta say that your books have seriously changed the trajectory of my life and Laziness Does Not Exist is my new daily motto💖
I am also curious what people have to say about the independent aac users in the podcast.
Can we consider any of the reporting on a podcast that uses such a widely discredited method as a primary source to be credible? Do you find the methodology and analysis of a podcast whose core premise is that disabled people have magic powers credible?
Have you listened to the podcast or watched any of the research footage? They address skepticism and historical issues directly in episode 8, and there is no physical touch between anyone communicating nonverbally.
It really feels like you’re coming from a place of assumption re: how this topic is covered and explained throughout the podcast. They genuinely never use the phrases “magic,” “magic powers” or anything remotely similar.
They say Autistic people appear to have psychic abilities and are using 'telepathy'. I am using the term "magic" here to highlight they are making completely unscientific, supernatural claims akin to claims of magic.
Ok so correct me if I'm wrong - are there not both FC and independent AAC users on the podcast??
We're rocking with you - FC is ass.
Oh wait I misread your comment. Checking for understanding: So since they use FC in the podcast (and defend it on their website etc), it makes sense that any report of independent communication using AAC is a lie? Am I getting that correctly?
I personally would not trust the journalistic integrity or rigor of a reporter who relies upon such a massively discredited method in their reporting. This isn't about the messages of the AAC users, it's about how they are reported on, how they are interviewed, what they are asked by the reporters, how the information is presented in the show, etc.
I honestly get the sense you haven't listened to the entire series. This wasn't about FC. This is about giving voice to those who otherwise assumed to have nothing to say. It's about parents learning their child has been "hearing" their thoughts all along, including the disparaging, difficult ones. It's about learning they have been learning and absorbing much more around them than we ever realized. It's about rigid experiments set up in a scientific way to prevent people from judging it as pseudoscience. It's about learning that some non-speaking autistic folks connect mentally via telepathy with other non-speaking autistic folks and find a sense of connection and community they otherwise wouldn't have access to.
It's about their caregivers and other specialists learning their clients knew things THEY were thinking about without having ever shared those things. It's about a whole lot of parents and care providers of autistic non-speaking kids staying silent out of fear of ridicule. If this possibility of telepathy exists and we have overlooked it, wouldn't it behoove us to research it more? For me, the tapes were fascinating, mind-blowing, and shined a light on something that could give non-speaking autistic kids a way to communicate sooner and be more understood by their families, schools, and carers. I don't care so much HOW telepathy works, but THAT it seems to/might. It made me curious.
Do you notice how every major revelation and insight being described here has to do with the interior lives and struggles of the *parents and caregivers*? And not the disabled people themselves...?
Not sure how you concluded that. Point by point I noted: 1) giving voice to these autistic folx, 2) if parents knew their kid could hear/know their thoughts, my guess is they'd work to have much kinder thoughts about their autistic kid, thereby benefiting that kid, 3) if their child is picking up on information in other ways (telepathically or by reading) that means we can adapt learning to be more appropriate to the level of their understanding and not presume incompetence or a lower level of comprehension - at least not without full assessment, 4) experiments were overseen by Dr. Diane Hennessey Powell, a neuropsychiatrist who trained at Johns-Hopkins (she must be pretty smart and willing to risk a lot when it comes to professional reputation for the sake of sharing this information), with the goal of helping autistic non-speakers, 5) if caregivers and teachers thought that even SOME of their autistic clients/students could read their thoughts, and thoughtfully considered how they think about them and their abilities to do many things, this benefits the autistic person, 6) if the stigma and fears of the unknown could be dispelled (kind of like Unmasking process for those of us who do speak), that again benefits the autistic person, 7) if we could develop an assessment to determine the full range of capacities for each non-speaking autistic child very early on, then that child benefits from education that could be tailored to their needs and abilities.
These are ALL non-speaking autistic benefits. And...dare I say, coming to not view so many as inherently "disabled", but rather disabled by our inability to properly assess their intellectual, cognitive & spiritual, functioning by virtue of our own limited viewpoints.
Please actually take a listen to the whole series and then consider a more thoughtful follow up essay.
Illuminating work as always. Will the oversaturation of the podcast scene drive us to unearth every psychological pseudoscience for fame and profit? At this point I wouldn't be surprised by the 'Pop Phrenology Podcast'.
You might find my interview with Powell interesting. She admitted the studies the podcast claims to do were not good enough https://www.theamericansaga.com/p/the-telepathy-tapes-is-taking-america
TT is highly problematic, but these nonspeakers were *not* using FC. S2C & RPM *are not* the same as FC. Holding a letter board in front of a speller is not even remotely the same as physically supporting an individuals arm & hand. This is incredibly harmful & invalidating to nonspeakers.
The ASHA lists RPM as of dubious validity on very similar grounds as FC: https://www.asha.org/slp/cautions-against-use-of-fc-and-rpm-widely-shared/?
It depends heavily on how the letter board is being used and whether a support person is in any way manipulating its use.
I find it very troubling that you would reference ASHA as a credible source. Or the APA. Seriously? Fuck those ableist institutions! Danny with Words recently expressed his grievances with TT and the reason is that it created the exact skepticism about FC that you are write about here. You should check it out. https://www.facebook.com/100068419504059/posts/pfbid0AXoGyE6KDCVvGsDyLSagLaKcntYqES7iQfDbtdNaFyumEdosZ2GoWKZBcf3HS4gnl/?app=fbl
Elitist, ableist institutions like the APA are very reactionary and slow to change-- which is part of what makes it so striking that even they are unequivocal in their rejection of this communication method. It's rare for staff within professional orgs to so loudly discredit their colleagues. That the evidence against FC is so consistent that they can use such strong-voiced language in opposition to FC is very telling. On the rare occasion when these orgs take a strong stance against dangerous psuedoscience, be that antivax sentiment or a claim that abled people controlling disabled peoples' bodies is in some way a communcation coming from them, I am in the relatively rare position of agreeing with them. I also was happy when the APA issued statements against advanced interrogation methods for instance.
TTT is straight-up misleading about the communication methods used, intentionally so, and that has awful consequences for people who do use things like letterboards to communicate -- if an abled facilitator is moving the board and influencing input, it's a problem, but letterboards themselves are not.
https://thinkingautismguide.com/2012/11/interview-amy-sequenzia-on-facilitated.html
Here is Amy Sequenzia on FC. It’s important that you look to the autistic community before you call FC bunk. https://ollibean.org/amy-sequenzia-respect-how-i-choose-to-speak/
It's worth noting that at one point Ky defines S2C and RPM as different from classic FC because they do not involve facilitator touch on the speller, but elsewhere she admits facilitators are physically supporting spellers, and the clips on the Telepathy Tapes website show such physical support. Too there's the question of why facilitators also need to be holding letterboards at all, as we can see them moving and waving about during spelling.
Thank you. This has been bothering me and I haven't gotten around to formulating all my thoughts. Good read.
Tell me you didn't make it past the first episode without telling me you didn't make it past the first episode. If you're going to give your opinion on something, at least do your due diligence and have actually watched the podcast all the way through. Everything you bring up was addressed in the show and further, it started with a FC who touched the arm but the other autistic folks used other forms of communication and some of them were able to verbalize words. So much of what they experienced my mother and I have experienced as autistics. There is something to it and it's not magic. It's consciousness and it's a reminder that we don't know everything and why its crucial to keep an open mind. Its humbling and nothing more. We're just human, after all.
Christa, I'm sorry, but you are being lied to. In the videos on their Pateron TTT demonstrates that facilitators are controlling use of the letterboards and keyboards -- any manipulation of its placement and access to it can unconsciously influence feedback, as all of the studies I have linked to demonstrate consistently. Furthermore, the nonspeaking people profiled in this podcast were never even taught to read or spell prior to the sudden implementation of FC. Nonspeaking people can use devices to communicate, and communicate using other methods all the time -- but if an abled person is controlling the communication it is abusive puppetry.
I listened to the whole podcast and some of them do speak enough to communicate their experiences. They say they're real. What I find the most troubling is your need to speak on their behalf. You are doing the very thing you're excusing others of doing. You're minimizing nonspeakers experiences and dismissing them because you don't believe what they're claiming as their experience is real. Im sorry but that's abliest, pure and simple. Who are you to say what they're experiencing isn't genuine? Did someone who is nonspeaking tell you that this is all a lie and they were forced to say those things? Otherwise, you're doing what so many tend to do, speak your bias as truth. You say I'm being lied to while you're lying to yourself.
You’re right that ASHA lumps S2C & RPM in with FC - & there have been many advocates fighting for ASHA to retract that damaging & incorrect statement, Barry Prizant among them. ASHA is wrong (I say this as a licensed SLP).
I appreciate the clarification and resources -- how do we distinguish between iterations of RPM where the board is being moved and manipulated by other people, and instances where it is not? Genuine question since that seems to be the root of the issue here, at least in my view -- if someone other than the person communicating has control over the communication method, I'm skeptical of the validity unless evidence indicates otherwise.
I’ve interviewed one of the people who did the ASHA review and the main reason it concluded what it did is that there hasn’t been a single study where RPM and S2C proponents agreed to take part in a double blind test. That test disproved FC. If proponents of these new variants see them as more legitimate, they should be open to testing. It’s not ASHA who refuses to test.
Thank you for this clarification, Zaid! The Conspirituality episode I linked above also gets into this, for anyone curious -- within the FC community, anyone who expresses skepticism or submits to testing is ostracized.
You could extend these same questions to *any* form of AAC. PODD, for instance, is a communication partner assisted form of AAC. The user does not turn the pages of the book, only the partner. If the user can direct select, they point to icons, otherwise the partner assists with scanning & watches the user for indications, such as a blink or head nod.
Yet no one is calling into question this form of AAC. For nonspeakers with significant dyspraxia (a motor disorder), communication partner support is necessary for communication. Needing help to do something shouldn’t invalidate it. This is the reality for HSN autistics. Everything they do is called into question… that’s the true ableism.
Some of those other forms of communication have been empirically tested and do show that, when properly utilized (with a variety of different aid people who are themselves blinded to information that the disabled person does have access to), the communication comes from the disabled person themselves. Needing support does not invalidate a disabled person's communication -- relying on a specific facilitator who *controls* communication and refuses to subject their methods to empirical testing (as most FC and RPM facilitators do) makes it impossible to tell whether an abled person is puppetting a disabled person and putting words into their mouth. We approach with skepticism so that disabled people aren't being abused and misrepresented and denied better chances at communication that actually reflect their feelings.
I hear you. And like with most things, research lags decades behind what clinicians are reporting in practice. I think it’s important to note the hundreds of nonspeakers who have transitioned from learning to use a letter board through S2C & RPM to independent typing. This wouldn’t be possible if these individuals were just being “puppeted,” correct? There is *some* valid & important research out there to support spelling methods. Happy to share if you respond to my DM via Instagram. We need more, of course, but that doesn’t mean we trash a valid & important communication method used by thousands of nonspeakers.
Well there's a link there. The same man who helped create Stephen Hawking's AAC device was the one who created the test that disproved FC (Howard Shane). Meaning that he absolutely cares about using the right methods and testing them.
The idea that having to be touched is due to apraxia doesn't really add up, it's just a justification created by advocates and not scientifically validated. Many of the kids using FC/RPM/S2C can watch youtube on their ipads unassisted but they need a communications partner to type? There is no form of communication where you need another person to do it.
I’m gonna say you’re dead wrong on that. My kid is a whiz using his iPad to watch his videos cuz it’s so easy and highly enjoyable, it’s also regulating for him, he uses it to stim. Spelling is much much more difficult and requires precision for accuracy. Holding a thought in your mind, fighting your sensory issues, while attempting communication takes massive amounts of energy. It’s exhausting.
Ugh, yes there is!
Swiping on an iPad is a GROSS motor skill. And quite automatic. Typing is a FINE motor skills with heaps of tiny intentional movements.
This is a distinction made up by activists. Nobody needs assistance communicating. Mind body disconnect? Autism isn’t one. Stephen Hawking had a device to let him communicate but he didn’t need another person there influencing his answers.
"Nobody needs assistance communicating"? I guess I choose the wrong career path as an SLP!
This is a disappointing post. I’m friends with 3 people who are non speaking who use a variety of forms of communication including facilitated communication sometimes (and not, other times). Two of whom have written about their horrible feelings about Telepathy Tapes - including how people who are not non speakers shouldn’t be speaking about this. It’s really important stuff to read.
Danny With Words, Typer Tremblings, and even mel baggs has written about the telepathy conversations before the podcast existed. I won’t say more since I’ve listened to them, and shared their voices, and encourage everyone to do the same.
And yes they find it horrible, and in part because they predicted people doing exactly what you’re doing. But for far deeper and more dehumanizing reasons than you post - and as the people being dehumanized.
(I’m disappointed because I generally love your writing so am disappointed by the lack of thoughtfulness here as someone out of the community).
OMFG i haven’t even read this yet but THANK YOU for addressing this toxic trash!
Ok, actually read it now and: yes to all of this! thank you again!!